The Wethersfield Historic District Commission held a public meeting on July 13, 2004 at 7:30 p.m. in the Council Conference Room of the Town Hall, 505 Silas Deane Highway, Wethersfield, Connecticut.
Chairperson Logan called the hearing to order at 7:30 p.m. and Clerk Wolf, read the Legal Notice as it appeared in the Hartford Courant on July 2, 2004.
APPLICATION NO. 3218-04. Jill and Donald Swoverland seeking to install replacement windows and a fence at 29 Belmont Street.
Donald Swoverland, 29 Belmont Street, came before the Board seeking to install replacement windows and a fence at 29 Belmont Street. He indicated that he had replaced the replacement windows with replacement windows. He did not realize that he needed to appear before this Commission and obtain permission prior to replacing the windows with replacement windows. It was his understanding that if he had replaced the original windows he would need to obtain permission from this Commission. The windows on the upper floor are the only windows he had replaced; the lower floor has replacements which were installed prior to 1987.
In response to Commissioner Miglus question, Mr. Swoverland indicated the home was purchased from his mother-in-law prior to 1979.
Chairperson Logan indicated the dates when other windows had been replaced. Mr. Swoverland indicated that the windows were replaced on the upper level when his wife was pregnant because he did not want his children to be injured on account of the broken windows. He pointed out that the windows on the lower level were still broken.
Vice Chairperson Ovian asked if the upper dormer windows were replaced with replacement windows. Mr. Swoverland confirmed this statement.
Commissioner Garrey asked if the former windows were vinyl. Mr. Swoverland indicated that the former windows were aluminum because there were no vinyl windows available back then.
Vice Chairperson Ovian asked the color of the former windows. Mr. Swoverland stated the former windows were the same color as the replacement windows. Mr. Swoverland indicated that he did not change the grid or style. The only change was from aluminum to vinyl.
Commissioner Miglus indicated attending restoration shows in which replica steel windows were available with aluminum rounds. Mr. Swoverland was unaware of many manufacturers supplying this type of window.
Mr. Swoverland confirmed the house had the standard double hung vinyl windows which were manufactured by Landmark Windows which is no longer in business.
Chairperson Logan indicated the windows were one over one and six over one in 1975. Mr. Swoverland indicated he did not change the grids and only replaced window for window. A few windows on the upper floor had not been replaced.
Vice Chairperson Ovian asked if he considered using a wood replacement window or using a wood sash replacement kit. Mr. Swoverland indicated no and further stated that vinyl windows could be painted to match the trim if the Commission was concerned with the appearance.
Chairperson Logan asked if any of the windows on the porch had been replaced. Mr. Swoverland indicated no and that the porch had the original windows.
Commissioner Wolf asked about a request for a fence on this application. Mr. Swoverland indicated this application was also for a fence.
Mr. Swoverland stated a color photograph of the proposed fence was provided at the prior meeting. The fence would be similar to his neighbors for the proposed pool.
Chairperson Logan asked where the fence would be located. Mr. Swoverland indicated he would be replacing an existing fence with a stockade fence and lattice on the top which was a stipulation when it was approved at the June 8, 2004 meeting.
There being no one who wished to speak in favor or against this application, this portion of the hearing was declared closed.
APPLICATION NO. 3219-04. Thomas and Erin Kennedy seeking to install three replacement windows at 50 Center Street.
Erin and Thomas Kennedy came before the Board seeking to install three replacement windows at 50 Center Street. Mr. Kennedy indicated the house was a two-family house and wished to convert it back to a single-family house. The house had been altered in the back by the previous owners. Three windows were installed; two were the same size and the third was not. They wished to replace the three windows with three identical windows which would be aluminum clad with wood inserts. Mr. Kennedy provided photographs of what he was proposing. He wished to relocate the windows so that they would be aligned. The existing sink was located in front of the windows. He wished to keep the windows at the same height and install a backsplash behind the sink. He was proposing a standard 2' x 9" width. The house has a limited amount of wall space which was why they were requesting the replacement of the windows.
Chairperson Logan asked if the windows would be moved up. Mr. Kennedy indicated that the outer two would be moved up so that it would be consistent with the center window. The center would be shortened by 6" in order to provide space for a backsplash.
Commissioner McDougall confirmed the sides would also be shortened. Mr. Kennedy confirmed this so that all three windows would be the same size.
Vice Chairperson Ovian asked why the other two windows needed to be moved up. Mr. Kennedy indicated that it would be for consistency purposes, but if the Board did not allow them to do this, they would just move the center window. Vice Chairperson Ovian indicated they could avoid doing all three. Mrs. Kennedy indicated the windows were older and they would like to upgrade them.
Commissioner Miglus asked the size of the new windows. Mr. Kennedy stated it would be 2' x 9" width and 3' x 5" in height. Commissioner Miglus asked what the exterior of the home would look like. Mr. Kennedy said they would like to put up new siding in the future after converting it back to a one-family. Mrs. Kennedy indicated the exterior had some cracks and chips.
Vice Chairperson Ovian asked if the exterior siding would be replaced with wood siding after the windows were replaced. Mr. Kennedy stated that he had some scrap pieces at the home and hoped to make it look as if there was no disruption in this area.
Commissioner Garrey asked if the original siding were aluminum. Mr. Kennedy stated it was plastic vinyl.
Commissioner Miglus asked if the kitchen was a done deal or just a plan. Mr. Kennedy indicated that it was just a plan and that the kitchen had been gutted Commissioner Miglus mentioned the windows were indicative of the period in which it was built with windows proportioned twice as high as the width. He mentioned that the Kennedy's' were requesting double hung windows with different proportions. The windows, when viewed from the exterior, would look horizontal rather than vertical because the sashes were going to be horizontal looking. Commissioner Miglus felt this might not be the best thing for the exterior of the house which was what this Commission was concerned with. He asked if they had tried to open a double hung window above a kitchen sink. Mr. Kennedy stated that he had not. Commissioner Miglus suggested a casement window with either no divisions or other divisions which would provide a vertical window and be easier to open. This would be useful on the inside as well as preserve the vertical look of the exterior. He suggested looking at the kitchen further and seeing if the wall space can be put to better use.
Vice Chairperson Ovian pointed out that there were no other casement windows on that side of the house. Commissioner Miglus agreed with this statement. Vice Chairperson Ovian originally was going to suggest a window well; however, this did not address the difficulty associated with opening a window located over a sink. Vice Chairperson Ovian agreed with Commissioner Miglus' concern about using a double hung over the sink. He mentioned many homes were installing central air and asked if they were considering this. Mr. Kennedy stated they might look at this farther in the future. Mr. Kennedy hoped to open up the kitchen because of its small size and still maintain the proportions to the rest of the house.
Chairperson Logan asked if the Kennedy's' would have a problem with using casement windows. Mrs. Kennedy indicated she did not even consider this as an option until tonight because it would be different from the rest of the windows in the house. Chairperson Logan indicated casement windows work very well.
Commissioner Miglus mentioned a number of houses with additions within the same period that had casement windows that had worked aesthetically.
Vice Chairperson Ovian asked if he were suggesting twin casements or single. Commissioner Miglus stated single. Vice Chairperson Ovian felt twin casements would produce a very vertical window because of its location to two double hung windows.
Chairperson Logan asked how close the windows were to the driveway. Mr. Kennedy said it was close to the driveway. Chairperson Logan asked if a single window would work based on its location. Chairperson Logan mentioned the location of a window so close to a driveway after reviewing the photograph. She asked for information on the proposed windows. Mr. Kennedy felt an aluminum clad window was best. Mrs. Kennedy mentioned the interior of the home had the original woodwork which would work well with the wood frame on the inside and aluminum clad on the outside. The exterior of the window would be brilliant white.
Mrs. Kennedy asked if they were going to use a casement window for the middle window, what they would need to do with the other two windows. Commissioner Miglus asked if they wished to pursue a casement window. Mrs. Kennedy preferred aluminum clad but did not really consider double hung versus casement. She indicated that she did not like to leave windows open because of her allergies. She never thought of the effort involved in order to open a window positioned over a sink. She always had double hung windows in the homes she lived in.
Commissioner Miglus mentioned one option was to table this application in order to give them a better opportunity to explore other options. He suggested sketching out what it would look like with a double hung or casement window in order to make their decision easier. Mr. Kennedy mentioned that the kitchen was already gutted and that they had hired a contractor who was waiting to begin the work.
There being no one who wished to speak in favor or against this application, this portion of the hearing was declared closed.
APPLICATION NO. 3220-04. Marilyn Binns seeking to construct an addition and deck in the rear at 45 Woodland Street.
Marilyn Binns, 45 Woodland Street, came before the Board seeking to construct an addition and deck in the rear at 45 Woodland Street. She submitted two sets of blueprints for the Commission's review. She indicated she had appeared before the board last year. She has contracted with a company that has worked in Wethersfield before. She would prefer an aluminum clad sash window similar to what she already has on the opposite of the house and on the dormers. The sunroom has arched windows and she would be putting one over the basement and one over the extended area.
Mr. Cook mentioned this area looked out over the public gardens. Mrs. Binns mentioned it was adjacent to Neil Walsh's garage.
Commissioner McDougall asked if there was a plot plan. Mrs. Binns presented one. She presented a sketch of the proposed extension.
Commissioner Miglus asked her to explain the blueprints. Mrs. Binns stated the addition would be 6" larger than indicated on the blueprint. She wanted to be able to look out over the garden allotments. Privacy was an issue and the current double window looked into the neighbor's back porch. The proposed plan would allow her to look over the yard and not into her neighbor's back door.
Commissioner McDougall asked for clarification concerning the proposed addition. Mrs. Binns explained her proposed addition based upon the blueprints provided.
Commissioner Miglus asked if the south side had been drafted out by the contractor. He asked if she had a drawing of the entire house and how the addition interplays with the house. She did not have one with her. He was concerned with extending the wall without a break and whether the flow of the windows would work as well as it did now. Mrs. Binns did not feel it would interrupt the flow. Commissioner Miglus asked if a final draft had been done illustrating the final results. She did not have one based upon the cost. She hoped to start work on the addition by August. Commissioner Miglus requested a sketch of this and offered to draft one with her assistance so that the Commission would have a better idea of what the final project would look like.
Vice Chairperson Ovian clarified Commissioner Miglus' concern. Mrs. Binns referred to a house on Belmont Street as an example.
Commissioner Miglus felt her plans were better. He was only questioning the final outcome when the project and the massing when the project was done. He was not concerned with the symmetry of the windows but with the massing when it was done. Commissioner Miglus wanted to see a sketch of the final project.
Chairperson Logan mentioned the roofline would not be the same. The second floor dormer was not extending out which would make a big difference.
Commissioner Wolf asked if the addition was moved in, would it resolve some of Commissioner Miglus' concerns. Commissioner Miglus said it would break up the wall. He was concerned with the side view.
Commissioner Garrey mentioned this style of house has a large amount of windows on the first floor.
Commissioner McDougall asked about the door on the north elevation and inquired as to what material was being proposed. Mrs. Binns said the door would be the same aluminum clad wood or fiberglass. The design is the same as her front entrance door which has 15 panes.
Chairperson Logan confirmed it would be the same as the front vestibule doors. Mrs. Binns stated she use to have French doors, but that the house was not square enough to put it back in.
Commissioner McDougall confirmed she was also proposing a deck. Mrs. Binns said the deck was actually a platform that did not require steps which would have interfered with the hatchway doors. The platform would be 6' flush to the end of the extension and the door would go straight out with one set of stairs to the driveway. The driveway was located on the north side of the property.
Commissioner Miglus confirmed the deck would be low enough so that it would not require railings.
Mrs. Binns showed a blueprint of the current home and the windows. Commissioner Miglus asked her to leave the proposed blueprint. Mr. Cook suggested she remain for the Public Meeting.
Mrs. Binns provided catalogs for the proposed door and windows. She mentioned that she wished to keep the six over one for the windows.
Mr. Neil Walsh, 49 Woodland Street indicated his home was located east of the property. He spoke in favor of this application and felt it was well thought out and the view from the garden would be an improvement to the property. He expressed concern with the east wall and that the addition was flush with the outside wall and suggested stepping it in a little if there was more space. He was initially concerned with the windows with the arch windows, double windows and the proposal of a single window and a space and another single window. He mentioned the houses in this area had a lot of windows. He was pleased with the overall proposed application.
Mrs. Binns mentioned a large 6' sofa and no place to put it if she had to have more windows in that area.
There being no one who wished to speak against this application, this portion of the hearing was declared closed.
APPLICATION NO. 3221-04. William Philbrick seeking to install an above ground pool and screening fence at 36 Marsh Street.
Maria Sipala and William Philbrick came before the Board seeking to install an above ground pool and screening fence at 36 Marsh Street. The pool would be installed behind the three bay garage. There is a stockade fence on one side with 10' shrubs on the other side and the pool would be in the middle of this.
Mr. Cook indicated the location would be hidden by the greenery.
Commissioner McDougall asked what size pool was being proposed. Mr. Philbrick indicated the pool would be 15' x 30' and the space it would go into is 36' by 50'.
Chairperson Logan asked how high the pool was. Mr. Philbrick stated it was 52". Chairperson Logan asked how tall the fence on the neighbor's side was. Mr. Philbrick stated there was 6' stockade fence and that the existing fence went all the way around the back with a picket fence in the front.
"Vice Chairperson Ovian asked if the pool would be higher than the fence. Mr. Philbrick indicated that the ladder, which was removable, would extended a foot above the fence. The stockade fence was 6'."
Chairperson Logan asked if the fence on their side was a white picket fence. Mr. Philbrick stated that this was a proposed fence and that Mr. Cook thought the arborvitae might not provide sufficient screening. Mr. Cook was concerned if the fence were removed it would provide full exposure to Marsh Street.
Commissioner McDougall confirmed the location of the stockade fence and how far back it went.
Commissioner Hart confirmed the stockade fence belonged to the applicants.
Chairperson Logan asked what type of fence would be proposed. Mr. Philbrick stated it would the same as the fence across from it which was a 6' stockade fence.
Vice Chairperson Ovian asked if the view was from the Keeney Center. Mr. Philbrick said it could not be seen from the Keeney Center.
He tried to get view from a public spot and could not see it because of the foliage.
Commissioner Wolf asked how long they had owned the house. Mr. Philbrick said they purchased it in 1995.
Commissioner Miglus asked if the arborvitae and fence were removed could the pool be seen from Marsh Street. Mr. Cook said on the other side of the house was some shrubbery and that the view would be pretty diminished.
Chairperson Logan felt in the winter months there might be a chance to see the pool from the Keeney if the fence were removed.
Ms. Sipala provided two letter of support from the neighbors. Mr. Philbrick mentioned that both abutters were apartment buildings with absentee landlords. The one on the far side was held in trust and a letter was provided and the abutter on the other side was a five apartment dwelling with an absentee landlord that lives in Wethersfield and he had given verbal approval but was on vacation.
Commissioner McDougall asked where the house was moved from in the 60's. Ms. Sipala indicated it was moved from across the street.
There being no one who wished to speak against this application, this portion of the hearing was declared closed.
APPLICATION NO. 3222-04. Alfred J. Chesky, Jr. seeking to replace the front steps at 9 Hubbard Place.
Alfred J. Chesky, Jr., 205 E. Hampton Road, Marlborough, CT came before the Board seeking to replace the front steps at 9 Hubbard Place where his mom lives. He mentioned the steps were brick and blue stone and he hoped to replace it with the same size step. He mentioned the existing steps were not able to be used in its present condition leaving the home with only on egress which is a safety issue.
Commissioner Hart asked if the replacement would include the same type of railings. Mr. Chesky said it would.
Vice Chairperson Ovian asked if he considered replacing like with like. Mr. Chesky indicated that he did not due to the deterioration.
Commissioner McDougall pointed out that the typical steps would have been constructed using wood on this street. Mr. Chesky stated he was not interested in using wood.
Vice Chairperson Ovian confirmed a landing was needed if the steps were replaced. Mr. Chesky confirmed a landing was required.
Commissioner McDougall asked if he wished to use metal railings. Mr. Chesky said he wanted to use the same rod iron railing.
Chairperson Logan asked if the original railings could be reused. Mr. Chesky said he did not believe he could reuse the original railings. He did not wish to worry about frost heaves and cracking.
Commissioner Garrey asked if it would be the same style as the existing railing. Mr. Chesky confirmed this.
Mr. Chesky asked if he received approval, if he needed a building permit. Mr. Cook confirmed this.
Chairperson Logan asked if the steps could be painted. Mr. Chesky said he would speak with the contractors. The house was brown.
Commissioner Garrey mentioned concrete stain could be applied and would not chip and would protect the concrete.
Chairperson Logan showed him a photograph of the original house and mentioned he could get a copy of the photograph.
Marilyn Binns, 45 Woodland Street spoke in favor of this application.
There being no one who wished to speak against this application, this portion of the hearing was declared closed.
APPLICATION NO. 3223-04. Lloyd & Ellen Goldberg seeking to install a fence at 246 Broad Street.
Ellen Goldberg, 246 Broad Street, came before the Board seeking to install a fence on the south side of the house. She provided photographs as to where she planned on placing the fence.
Commissioner Wolf asked how long she had owned the house. Ms. Goldberg stated she had been there 10 years.
Vice Chairperson Ovian mentioned her being before this commission for a porch five years ago. Ms. Goldberg confirmed this and indicated she had not done this job but would be back before this Commission for the porch.
Ms. Goldberg said the pickets would have dog eared corners with 1/2" between the pickets. The two hedges would remain and the fence would begin behind the
hedges. She further stated the fence would start behind the front and the fence in the back would be 6' and on the side it would be the same height as the hedges.
Chairperson Logan mentioned an ordinance concerning visibility could be an issue due to the location of the fence and the neighbor's driveway. Ms. Goldberg stated that the Building Department had come out and looked at this and said it would be fine.
Commissioner Garrey asked where the fence graduated it would be one section. Ms. Goldberg confirmed this and mentioned the fence would be 6' at the rear of the property.
Commissioner Miglus asked if she had a plot plan. He asked how far back it would appear from the front of the sidewalk. Ms. Goldberg asked if the Commission had a picture of her house and stated that her house was on the sidewalk. Commissioner Miglus asked how far back from the house. Ms. Goldberg showed Commissioner Miglus where the fence would be located from a picture presented tonight. She mentioned the shrub would remain as depicted in the picture.
Chairperson Logan asked if it would be before the door or behind the door.
Commissioner Miglus confirmed the fence location with Ms. Goldberg. Ms. Goldberg indicated the width of the two shrubs and behind it.
Vice Chairperson Ovian confirmed the front corner of the house.
Commissioner Miglus confirmed the front sections would be 8' and then graduate to 6' in the back. Commissioner Miglus mentioned the down slope of the topography.
Commissioner Miglus confirmed the location of the fence and the transition of the fence towards the rear corner of the house.
Vice Chairperson Ovian asked if she considered a step down rather than a step up. He mentioned the drop in the land in the same area and that an extra 2' would be required in order to keep it high enough. He suggested the transition piece on the bottom rather than the top in order to prevent air space. Ms. Goldberg mentioned that she wished to block the view of a neighbor's garage which was usually open and revealed the contents.
Commissioner McDougall agreed and said a good fence installer would address this issue. She said you did not want a 6' fence with a 2' gap.
Ms. Goldberg mentioned using A Plus for the installation of the fence.
Commissioner Miglus said it could start at 4' and then transition to 6' in the rear.
Commissioner Hart asked what the fence would be made of and the color. Ms. Goldberg said it would be cedar and unpainted like the house.
Ms. Goldberg did not want the Building Department to misunderstand as to where the fence would be located with respect to the street.
Commissioner Wolf asked when she had received the pamphlet Ms. Goldberg had with her. Ms. Goldberg indicated it was with the application.
There being no one who wished to speak in favor or against this application, this portion of the hearing was declared closed.
APPLICATION NO. 3224-04. James Pawluk seeking to replace the windows at 47-49 Church Street (TABLED - Last Meeting Date to Act On: August 10, 2004.)
Mr. Cook stated that the applicant had not applied or been issued a Building Permit nor was a Certificate of Appropriateness provided when the windows were installed. Mr. Cook asked if this application could remain tabled until he had heard back from the Building Department. Chairperson Logan confirmed keeping this application tabled.
APPLICATION NO. 3225-04. Celia Gomes seeking to install an above ground pool and deck at 96 Harmund Place (TABLED - Last Meeting Date to Act on: August 10, 2004).
Celia Gomes, 96 Harmund Place came before the Board seeking to install an above ground pool and deck.
Commissioner Wolf asked what had changed since the last meeting. Ms. Gomes indicated that it was her understanding that the Commission had recommended that the Commissioners perform a site visit.
Vice Chairperson Ovian expressed concern with the apparatus at the top of the pool. He asked if she still wished to remain with the proposed decking for the pool. Ms. Gomes mentioned she still wanted this because of her children. Vice Chairperson Ovian stated that the Commission wished to have the entire pool shielded and that the fence would not be able to shield this additional apparatus due to this size. He asked if she was still considering it in light of the discussion at the last meeting Ms. Gomes stated she wished to have the deck around the pool so that they could sit around the pool. She also stated that this deck would also prevent a child falling onto the ground.
Commissioner Garrey said this type of deck required this type of fence.
Vice Chairperson Ovian mentioned this fence replaced the need to have a fence around the entire yard.
Chairperson Logan mentioned a fence was required in order to hide the pool and not to prevent someone from entering the pool. The ladder could be removed from the pool which would accomplish this. She asked Ms. Gomes if she considered putting a deck on the house and connect it to the pool. Ms. Gomes stated that a deck has already been constructed on the other side of the house and was on the upper level of the raised ranch.
Mr. Cook asked if it were on the plot plan reflecting this.
Commissioner Miglus mentioned visiting the property and would discuss it further during the Public Meeting.
There being no one who wished to speak in favor or against this application, this portion of the hearing was declared closed.
APPLICATION NO. 3176-04 Lawrence & Sara Gluckman seeking to amend the approved Certificate of Appropriateness to change the door on the addition at 62 Center Street.
Lawrence Gluckman, 62 Center Street, came before the commission and hoped to modify the rear door of the addition. The current door was a square French corner door which has grids in it. The door they found was rounded which was similar to the windows in the sunroom. He hoped to continue the same style in the back of the house in the form of the windows.
Commissioner Miglus asked if the door was new or used. Mr. Gluckman indicated it was a new door.
Commissioner Garrey asked if it would swing in. Mr. Gluckman said the two doors would swing in.
Commissioner Miglus confirmed the glass was rounded. Mr. Gluckman said the window was rounded and the wood would follow the radius of the glass.
Commissioner Garrey asked if it had grids. Mr. Gluckman said it did not and that it faced out to the gardens. He wanted to look out from a proposed dining area and prefer to have open glass rather than look around the grids.
Commissioner McDougall confirmed the addition was located in the rear of the house.
Vice Chairperson Ovian asked if they would consider glass with light divisions or without it. Mr. Gluckman said his option is without. The only public view was from the public gardens in the back.
Mr. Cook asked if Ms. Binns could provide some additional supplemental information prior to going into their Public Meeting.
APPLICATION NO. 3220-04. Marilyn Binns seeking to construct an addition and deck in the rear at 45 Woodland Street.
Ms. Binns, 45 Woodland Street mentioned the need for her privacy and wished to avoid smoke from a nearby barbecue from entering her home. She stated this when the Commission makes its decision as to whether to put a double window or a single window on the addition. She also mentioned the difficulty in placing furniture against the walls around the windows and the closets. She mentioned her neighbor's porch was close and she did not wish to erect a fence.
There being no other business to come before the Commission, Vice Chairperson Ovian moved to close the public hearing and open the public meetings on all of the aforementioned applications, except Application No. 3216-04, seconded by Commissioner Wolf.
APPLICATION NO. 3218-04. Jill and Donald Swoverland seeking to install replacement windows and a fence at 29 Belmont Street.
INFORMAL DISCUSSION
Chairperson Logan asked if he would approve clad windows or just wood sash. Commissioner Miglus mentioned the original windows were wood and he would like to go back to wood. He did not wish to approve clad and then determine what color to go with based on the other windows already installed.
Chairperson Logan asked if Commissioner Miglus wanted to stipulate the division of the wood. Commissioner Miglus thought the windows were one over one.
Vice Chairperson Ovian thought the windows were six over one.
Commissioner Garrey said that most houses of this style were either six over one or nine over one.
Commissioner Wolf thought the pictures from 1975 that the dormer windows were probably six over one.
Commissioner Miglus said the windows on the sides which have not been replaced are one over one and wood.
Commissioner Wolf thought that perhaps the dormer had a different light division to match the porch.
Commissioner Miglus referred to another house of the same style and year which had one over one on the sides and one and one on the dormer with a different light division on the porch.
Vice Chairperson Ovian asked if the commission could accept one over one wood throughout because of the size of the windows upstairs. He understood what Commissioner Wolf was saying about light patterns but it was unclear if the house was originally six over six and it was only a shadow.
Commissioner Miglus said he wished to see wood windows and hoped the applicant would come back to this commission for future changes to windows.
Commissioner Garrey felt the windows should be six over one in the front.
Upon motion by Commissioner Miglus, seconded by Vice Chairperson Ovian and a poll of the Commission it was voted to APPROVE the subject application with the following stipulations:
Aye: Garrey, Logan, Miglus, Ovian, Wolf
Mr. Cook asked if the applications could be taken out of order so as to render a decision for the individuals still present at the Pubic Meeting.
APPLICATION NO. 3220-04. Marilyn Binns seeking to construct an addition and deck in the rear at 45 Woodland Street.
INFORMAL DISCUSSION
Commissioner Miglus stated he was concerned with the extension of the wall as a continuous part of the house because the existing house was a square footprint and the sidewall was the same width as the front of the house and putting the addition would change the proportion. He felt it could be easily cured by a vertical element running down. He suggested either a corner board or a slight protrusion from the wall in order to break the wall at the original house.
Vice Chairperson Ovian mentioned the foundation changed there. He asked if the rest of the house had minute corners and putting a straight piece of wood there would remedy Commissioner Miglus' concerns.
Commissioner Miglus indicated he was not trying to replicate anything but just to break the wall.
Commissioner Garrey mentioned setting it back 2" could also break the wall.
Commissioner Miglus suggesting changing the materials would also remedy this. He also mentioned building a stone column which was flush with the wall or see if the architect had any other ideas.
Commissioner Wolf asked about changing to the one window in the original body of the house or leave the two already there. Commissioner Miglus felt one window would work and pointed out that the applicant was proposing changes of material for the windows in the back of the house. The applicant looking for clad with grids on the inside of the window. He did not object to clad windows and the grids on the addition because of the location of the addition in the back of the house. He was concerned with changes to the windows on the side of the house. He supported replication or restoration to the existing windows.
Vice Chairperson Ovian asked about using a clad window on the side. He favored not making the change on the addition. He supported windows being paired visually on the outside.
Commissioner Garrey supported restore or replace with like on the main body of the house and would like to see the simulated divided light on the back.
Vice Chairperson Ovian said the roof above it and trim all match the existing. He confirmed simulated divided light on the side.
Commissioner Miglus felt the impact on the district in the back of the house was so small. He supported either real wood or clad simulated divided light on the side.
Vice Chairperson Ovian mentioned using three different materials on the house for the windows.
Commissioner Garrey mentioned two painted windows on one wall and the other wall has a picture window.
Vice Chairperson Ovian wanted to see simulated divided light in the back of the house.
Mr. Cook was concerned that the Commission was suggesting taking one window and cut it in half. The Commission indicated it was not suggesting this.
Vice Chairperson Ovian suggested that all the windows in the addition are all wood or simulated divided light wood as opposed to clad. He thought the applicant might wish to change the windows in the future.
Chairperson Logan confirmed the stipulation was for all the windows in the addition may be simulated light divided wood. The window on the south side shall be clad simulated divided light wood.
Vice Chairperson Ovian confirmed if Mrs. Binns decided to use wood true divided light in the addition she would have to come before this Commission.
Upon motion by Commissioner Miglus, seconded by Commissioner Garrey and a poll of the Commission it was voted to APPROVE the subject application with the following stipulations:
Aye: Garrey, Logan, Miglus, Ovian, Wolf
APPLICATION NO. 3217-04. Celia Gomes seeking to install an above ground pool and deck at 96 Harmund Place (TABLED - Last Meeting Date to Act on: August 10, 2004).
INFORMAL DISCUSSION
Vice Chairperson Ovian stated the commission has been consistent with its desire to have a fence shield the entire pool.
Commissioner Garrey said it was a very visible installation and a very tall structure.
Upon motion by Commissioner Wolf, seconded by Vice Chairperson Ovian and a poll of the Commission it was voted to DENY the subject application as submitted.
Vice Chairperson Ovian wished to revoke his second.
Commissioner Hart asked if this application was for a deck and not a pool at this height, would there still be deck railings showing.
Vice Chairperson Ovian agreed with Commissioner Hart.
Commissioner Wolf mentioned the application included a 6' vinyl fence.
Vice Chairperson Ovian asked if all the members were satisfied with a 6' fence being installed at the location requested in order to shield the pool following their site visit.
Commissioner Wolf was not satisfied based upon the grade of the property and slope of the land she felt the fence would sit lower than the pool.
Vice Chairperson Ovian asked if the pool could be seen at the street level with the proposed 6' fence.
Commissioner Miglus mentioned the street level was at 40' and the fence as at 42 1/2' and the pool was at 44' so there would be a 1 1/2' difference. It would be successfully shield by a 6' fence if there were no additional fence around the pool which was being requested by the applicant.
Vice Chairperson Ovian asked if Commissioner Wolf if she felt the fence would successfully shield the pool. Commissioner Wolf felt the pool would still be visible.
Mr. Cook wished to confirm a 6' fence would completely shield the pool. Commissioner Miglus confirmed based upon the height of the fence and pool and the elevations as indicated on the plot plan and the proposed location on the lot it would entire shield the pool which was the desire of this Commission.
Upon motion by Vice Chairperson Ovian, seconded by Commissioner Miglus and a poll of the Commission it was voted to APPROVE the subject application with the following stipulations:
Aye: Garrey, Logan, Ovian, Miglus Nay: Wolf
Mr. Cook left the meeting in order to discuss the results of this application.
APPLICATION NO. 3219-04. Thomas and Erin Kennedy seeking to install three replacement windows at 50 Center Street.
INFORMAL DISCUSSION
Commissioner Garrey said based upon the age of the house and the size he would prefer to see a double hung window used. He said the window line was similar with other two family houses.
Vice Chairperson Ovian mentioned it was characteristic for this house to have three windows at different levels. He was open to the opinions of the other Commissioner as to the material used for the windows.
Commissioner Garrey said this was one window replacement in the middle of two windows.
Vice Chairperson Ovian wished for all the windows to match and the other windows were wood.
Commissioner Miglus felt this window, if appraised as submitted, will drive the rest of the house. He was not comfortable with a window of this proportion and this house was different than the one on Broad Street.
Vice Chairperson Ovian asked if this window would be wider. Commissioner Miglus said it was shorter.
Commissioner Miglus said the window being proposed would be 33 by 41.
Commissioner Miglus felt it would echo the windows on the second floor.
Upon motion by Vice Chairperson Ovian, seconded by Commissioner Miglus and a poll of the Commission it was voted to APPROVE the subject application with the following stipulation:
Aye: Garrey, Logan, Ovian, Wolf Nay: Miglus
Mr. Cook returned to the meeting.
Commissioner Miglus left the meeting at 10:10 p.m.
APPLICATION NO. 3221-04. William Philbrick seeking to install an above ground pool and screening fence at 36 Marsh Street.
INFORMAL DISCUSSION
Commissioner Wolf felt she could approve this application because it would shield the pool from the public on all sides.
Vice Chairperson Ovian asked if the fence behind the arborvitae hedge extended behind the current hedge. Mr. Cook said it was just to the end of it.
Mr. Cook indicated that nothing could be seen now.
Vice Chairperson Ovian stated that part of the application
Upon motion by Vice Chairperson Ovian, seconded by Commissioner Garrey and a poll of the Commission it was voted to APPROVE the subject application with the following stipulation:
Aye: Garrey, Hart, Logan, Ovian, Wolf
APPLICATION NO. 3222-04. Alfred J. Chesky, Jr. seeking to replace the front steps at 9 Hubbard Place.
INFORMAL DISCUSSION
Commissioner Garrey was unsure if they could stipulate that the stairs be stained. He mentioned the proposed stairs were similar to what was there and would not deteriorate. He also pointed out that the applicant was not going to replace or repair the stairs using the same materials with what was there. He wished to add the stipulation regarding the color.
Commissioner Wolf suggested having it stained to match the house.
Chairperson Logan mentioned the house color may change and what would be done with the concrete.
Vice Chairperson Ovian suggested that all vertical surfaces could be stained.
Commissioner McDougall mentioned all the homes on Hubbard Place had little steps leading to the house. She felt the proposed steps were not historic and not in keeping with the style of the house. She also felt the proposed rod iron railings also detracted from the home. She was not in support of concrete steps. She proposed replacing the steps with wood, brick or slate but did not support the use of concrete for this style house and the size of the street.
Commissioner Hart mentioned the lack of craftsmanship by using concrete rather than wood.
Vice Chairperson Ovian said the concrete needed a combination of paint or stain. He mentioned approving steps made of brick for a house on Harmund Place and asked the Commission if masonry was ever appropriate there. He wanted to know if the Commission would support brick and blue stone at this location.
Commissioner Garrey suggested replacing or repairing the steps rather than using cast concrete.
Vice Chairperson Ovian suggested staining and asked if it would be appropriate.
Commissioner Garrey said what was there was the same mass as masonry. He would never vote to approve a home that had wood steps and proposed replacing it with concrete. He agreed with Commissioner McDougall's comments and supported wood steps.
Mr. Cook mentioned that the Building Department would have to approve wood steps if they were used.
Vice Chairperson Ovian asked if Commissioner McDougall would support something other than wood.
Commissioner McDougall said she would approve brick and wanted to keep with the style of the home and area. She also supported denying this application.
Chairperson Logan mentioned the condition of the other homes on this block was also experiencing the same deterioration.
Commissioner Garrey also supported not using cast concrete but felt there was masonry now and it was the same mass.
Vice Chairperson Ovian said the old wood steps came without a landing and now they are installing steps that resemble decks with landings. He did not wish to see this being used in this area. He mentioned a home on Church Street that he did not like and did not wish to see this being used.
Vice Chairperson Ovian felt it was risky trying to paint concrete.
Commissioner Hart also mentioned the chance of the concrete fading or being washed a number of times with a power washer which would leave the concrete looking worst than if it were left alone.
Upon motion by Commissioner Garrey, seconded by Vice Chairperson Ovian and a poll of the Commission it was voted to APPROVE FOR DISCUSSION PURPOSES the subject application as submitted.
Aye: Garrey, Logan, Ovian, Wolf Nay: McDougall
Commissioner Miglus returned to the meeting at 10:25 p.m.
APPLICATION NO. 3223-04. Lloyd & Ellen Goldberg seeking to install a fence at 246 Broad Street.
INFORMAL DISCUSSION
Vice Chairperson Ovian mentioned it did not address whether they wished to put a space on the top or bottom.
Upon motion by Commissioner Miglus, seconded by Vice Chairperson Ovian and a poll of the Commission it was voted to APPROVE the subject application with the following stipulation:
Aye: Garrey, Logan, Miglus, Ovian, Wolf
APPLICATION NO. 3176-04. Lawrence & Sara Gluckman seeking to amend the approved Certificate of Appropriateness to change the door on the addition at 62 Center Street.
INFORMAL DISCUSSION
Commissioner Garrey was pleased with Mr. Gluckman's sensitivity to the style of the house and how he is matching the door to the windows.
Chairperson Logan liked the idea of not having dividers in the door.
Vice Chairperson Ovian was not pleased with the lack of dividers in the door.
Commissioner Garrey mentioned because of the direction the porch was facing which was why he supported this application.
Upon motion by Commissioner Garrey, seconded by Commissioner Wolf and a poll of the Commission it was voted to APPROVE the subject application as submitted.
Aye: Garrey, Logan, Miglus, Wolf Nay: Ovian
APPROVAL OF MUNITES OF: JUNE 22, 2004
Chairperson Logan wished to amend the minutes of June 22, 2004 to reflect that she had allowed Commissioner Toomey to vote in her place and that she had refrained from voting on all the applications presented that night.
Upon motion by Commissioner Garrey, seconded by Commissioner Wolf and a poll of the Commission it was voted to APPROVE THE MINUTES AS AMENDED.
Aye: Garrey, Logan, Miglus, Ovian, Wolf
OTHER BUSINESS
Report of the Historic District Coordinator
Mr. Cook mentioned speaking with Fred Valente from the Building Department concerning grand fathering individuals. He mentioned a vinyl fence on Kenwood which the owner stated had been there for nine years. He asked if the Commission supported forcing this homeowner to come before this Commission and present an application for this fence. He also mentioned pictures of all the homes in the Historic District were taken two years ago and asked if the Commission would agree to use this as the baseline and move forward.
Vice Chairperson Ovian did not feel it was this black and white.
Chairperson Logan mentioned the application tonight which was tabled involved windows which were installed prior to the pictures taken.
Vice Chairperson Ovian asked who brought this issue to the Commission's attention. He was concerned with being arbitrary.
Chairperson Logan mentioned the former, former Town Planner had brought this fence to the Commission's attention.
Mr. Cook suggested a baseline date for the Commission to hear about such issues.
Chairperson Logan mentioned the issue of homeowner on Kenwood indicated purchasing the home with a vinyl fence already installed.
Mr. Cook said there was another house on Middletown Avenue that had vinyl windows. He did not wish to get bogged down with details, but wished to adopt a philosophy regarding this issue.
Commissioner McDougall asked if the trigger could be that he had received a written complaint or from a phone call from a Commissioner. If he did not have enough hours in order to review such issues, she suggested he mention it to the Commission and perhaps have his hours increased.
Mr. Cook stated that the issue was concerning adopting a philosophy. He stated one of the fences had been there nine years and a neighbor had a vinyl fence that has been there for five years. He asked if the Commission wished him to look into it.
Commissioner McDougall asked if he had received a complaint. Mr. Cook said a Commissioner had informed him of the fence. Commissioner McDougall suggested speaking with the homeowner. Mr. Cook has already sent two letters and a couple of phone calls to the homeowner.
Chairperson Logan confirmed there was a second house with a vinyl fence on Kenwood.
Vice Chairperson Ovian confirmed the homeowner had installed this fence five years ago. He felt if a complaint were made Mr. Cook had to look into it unless he did not wish to and then he needed to ask the Commission.
Chairperson Logan stated he needed a Certificate for even a wood fence. Mr. Cook said he did not receive a certificate. Chairperson Logan said the homeowner could then take down the fence. Mr. Cook confirmed the guidance he was seeking was that if a complaint was made he had to enforce their Certificate of Appropriateness and the owner needed to come before this Commission.
Chairperson Logan said yes unless the home was sold. She said they could not go after the new homeowner if the condition existed prior to the home being purchased. Mr. Cook mentioned the pool next to Ms. Gomes that did not need permission to put up a fence.
Chairperson Logan said this was the first Commission that required permission for putting up a fence around pools. Mr. Cook said Ms. Gomes called and asked why she needed a fence and they did not. Mr. Cook asked if she was making a complaint and she confirmed she was.
Commissioner Wolf confirmed that the Zoning Board's policy was if the issue existed for more than six (6) years and no complaints were made it was grand fathered for building codes. The Zoning does if after three years. Mr. Cook felt they should use the photographs and if the change was in the photograph the Commission would allow it.
Vice Chairperson Ovian did not support this.
Commissioner McDougall also felt it was unfair if someone was able to avoid coming to the Commission while others were made to.
Chairperson Logan suggested voting on this issue.
Commissioner Hart wished to clarify that if Mr. Cook sees something it would be handled like a violation. Mr. Cook looks at the photograph and if it were not there he would request an application.
Chairperson Logan suggested checking when items were approved.
Commissioner Garrey felt anything brought to this Commission or seen by a member of this Commission as a violation should be acted upon.
Commissioner Miglus asked how they would act upon these issues.
Vice Chairperson Ovian said a few at a time.
Commissioner Miglus asked how.
Vice Chairperson Ovian mentioned windows on River Road that were corrected after writing about them for a period of three years.
Chairperson Logan mentioned that she and Robert went to the front door and told the homeowner to put the windows in before the end of June and they were installed by the end of next week.
Vice Chairperson Ovian felt the line should be the sale of the property not including any liens carried with the property. He suggested Mr. Cook report back to this Commission if it became too burdensome.
Commissioner Garrey mentioned a time when this Commission was approving vinyl windows.
Vice Chairperson Ovian supported having Mr. Cook provide a list for the Commission to review. He also suggested taking each issue case-by-case. He did not wish to relinquish their jurisdiction because there may be an instance where they may wish they could exercise it more often.
Mr. Cook suggested using the 1975 photograph.
Chairperson Logan supported a baseline and using six (6) years.
Mr. Cook asked about the fence on Kenwood in which the homeowner said she had installed it.
Commissioner Wolf felt the homeowner should come in and apply for the fence.
Commissioner Garrey suggested visiting the home and then discussing it at the next meeting.
Commissioner Miglus said to check the transfer papers in the Assessor's Office or Town Clerk's Office to see when the home was transferred.
Mr. Cook also mentioned an e-mail from Sey Adil for the installation of public benches at the new location for the Creamery.
Commissioner Wolf mentioned it had to be on the apron due to the location.
Mr. Cook said he had talked with the Town Planner.
Chairperson Logan wished to see the building erected prior to making a decision on this issue.
Mr. Cook said he was approached by a company called Generation II from Glastonbury indicating its intent to purchase Mr. Kelly's building on Main and Church and turn it into four three story town houses. The cost would $350,000 for each condo which would have 2,100 square feet or 700 on each floor. He felt it had to go before the Zoning Commission for a zone change because it was zoned for commercial use and not residential.
Mr. Cook mentioned a letter welcoming Commissioner McDougall.
He also mentioned providing one photo per application and relying upon the computer for the other photograph.
Commissioner Miglus did not support this for the following reasons:
Mr. Cook mentioned it was time consuming pulling the photographs and this was just being tried on a trial basis.
Chairperson Logan did not support only one set of photographs.
Mr. Cook mentioned a letter was sent to Jose Nieves, 45 Middletown Avenue, who was building a deck without approval. He mentioned 232-234 Middletown Avenue, had done some window construction recently and a letter was also mailed to that resident.
He mentioned the Health Department reported demolishing property on Nott Street and work to commence on Middletown Avenue not far from Mill Street. The property owner guarantees work to begin prior to November regarding this property.
Commissioner Garrey thought the reason the Commission had not received anything about it was because it was just repair work because the town was not allowing him to demolish it.
Vice Chairperson Ovian inquired about a property on Middletown Avenue in which the owner was supposed to come in. Mr. Cook mentioned receiving a call from the neighbor concerning the homeowner commencing construction at this location.
Commissioner Garrey asked if the porch was going to be built on the corner of Mayfield. Mr. Cook requested a time constraint for the completion of the project.
Commissioner McDougall suggested putting it into the handbook.
Vice Chairperson Ovian mentioned adding a deadline for when a project had to be completed.
Commissioner Wolf mentioned they only stated when the work had to begin and not when it had to be completed.
Commissioner Garrey asked Mr. Cook if he could obtain the status of the porch from his boss.
Chairperson Logan suggested sending Mr. Valente in order to obtain this information since he was part of the Building Department and that this was beyond the jurisdiction of the Historic District Commission.
Mr. Cook felt it was now the jurisdiction of the Health Department.
Commissioner Miglus said the Commission voted on the Certificate of Appropriateness which was valid for one year from the date of issuance; expiration date would be displayed on both certificate and a copy filed in the Building Department. The applicant may apply for an extension to the original certificate before the original certificate expires. Request for an extension may be made to Robert. Extensions do not require a public hearing or $25.00.
Commissioner Garrey mentioned the certificate requires a full porch replacement.
Chairperson Logan mentioned that only a deck has been installed and she needed to finish the project.
Mr. Cook confirmed the applicant had to come back after one year and the work was not done. He wished to change the handbook.
Commissioner Miglus mentioned the Building Department issues a building permit establishing a date as to when the project can begin. He was not sure if it was for 2 or 3 years and might not include a completion date.
Vice Chairperson Ovian felt time limits should be added.
Commissioner Miglus said that building permits should include a completion date for each one issued.
Mr. Cook felt a date should be plugged in since some projects will not take as long as other projects.
Chairperson Logan said a pool permit would not be issued until a fence was erected. She also mentioned at the next meeting they would vote on officers.
ADJOURNMENT
There being no further business to come before the Commission, the meeting was adjourned at 10:53 p.m.
Respectfully Submitted
TOWN OF WETHERSFIELD
HISTORIC DISTRICT COMMISSION
Jennifer Wolf
Clerk